nah i think youre judging too early though. roadmaps and dashboards are how teams stay accountable before theres a product. you cant ship a finished thing out the gate and also be decentralized from minute one, somethings gotta give. give it 6 months and recheck the same 30.

honest question that ive been sitting with too. how do you separate a subnet thats genuinely just early from one thats coasting on emission with no intent to ship. like is there a tell you look for in the commits or the discord that makes you go yeah this one is actually building. cause i struggle to draw that line and id love a heuristic.

this matches what i found doing basically the same exercise a couple months back. the ones that survive my use it test tend to share a trait, theres a person in the discord who answers technical questions without deflecting to soon. the dead ones answer everything with roadmap energy. its not a perfect filter but it correlates with whether anything works when you poke it.

thought this was doomer at first. reread it. its just accurate

honestly YES someone needed to say this. the count means NOTHING if you cant use the thing. saving this post 🔥

the roadmap is the product, have you considered that. its very web3 of you to want the thing to actually exist

ok rereading the thread, the invisible validator work angle is fair and i wasnt counting those. softening my agree a bit, the dead pile is smaller than it looks from the outside

agree. most of it is vaporware with a treasury

画饼大赛 三十进十 还行了

i hear you but i think the framing is a little unfair. youre measuring an early network against a finished product. a third having something usable on day one is actually not bad for where we are. the dashboards you waved off are sometimes the only honest signal a team can give before the thing is load bearing. the question isnt whether everything works today, its whether the ones that do are getting better month over month. some of them clearly are. id rather have 30 imperfect attempts than 3 polished demos that go nowhere.

i love that you did this so the rest of us dont have to, truly a public service. my only contribution is that the promise category should have sub tiers. theres the honest promise, the we pivoted three times promise, and the wallet connect button that goes nowhere promise. someone fund this taxonomy

started skeptical of your skepticism. youre just right tho. moved

the one dev and a discord with 40 people is literally every project i have ever joined lmao no notes

thought you were doomposting. ran my own check. nope youre just right

two thirds is generous tbh

我理解你的失望 但我觉得这个判断下得太早了。一个网络早期本来就是这样 你拿成品的尺子去量刚起步的东西 当然到处都是空缺。dashboard和roadmap不是骗局 是团队在产品还撑不起来之前唯一能给出来的诚实信号。六个月后你再回头测同样这三十个 我赌一半的数字会变。现在就说大部分是空气 太急了

was about to dunk on you for being a hater and then i remembered i bounced off four subnets last weekend for the exact reasons you listed. fine. you win this one

the rest was a dashboard a roadmap and a promise. framing this

认同 数量根本不是指标 我买之前也是一个个去试 真能用的少得可怜 楼主这测法值得推广

agree with most of this. the only thing id add is the working third tends to be quiet about it, they ship and dont post. the loud ones are the dashboards. so your timeline skews toward the broken ones by design which makes the network look worse than it runs

ok but what counts as it works for you tho, like did you need it to be plug and play or just functional if you set it up properly. those land really differently

genuine question, when you say you tried to use the thing what did that look like? like did you hit an api, run a miner, what. cause some of these you cant evaluate as a regular user at all, the product is the validator set doing work you never see. not arguing just trying to understand the test.

说得对啊 一半都是画饼 给你看个dashboard就完事了 真能用的没几个 楼主清醒

本来想喷你太苛刻 然后我自己也去试了几个 确实 一堆就是个dashboard 啥也跑不动 收回我之前想说的话 你是对的

this is the most useful post ive seen here in a while and i want to add to it. i did a smaller version of this exercise and the thing that stood out was how often the broken ones had beautiful docs. theres an inverse relationship that scares me a little, polish on the marketing side often means the eng team is small or absent. the working ones tended to look kind of rough and unfinished on the surface because all the effort went into the part that actually runs. so when i evaluate now i almost discount the pretty ones a little. backwards but it keeps being true.

which third actually worked

subnet count go up, my will to live go down

couldnt agree more, the number of subnets is the crypto equivalent of github stars. impressive until you click into the repo

and how do you weight emission vs actual usage. is there a list anywhere

the dashboard and a promise is gonna be my new band name

ok read the replies, orions point about invisible validator work actually changes how i read your number. fewer dead than you said

yeah agreed, the gap between posted and shipped is the whole story here. people quote the numbers like they checked them. nobody checks them

yeah agreed. count up usefulness flat is the whole chart

不同意啊兄弟 早期就是这样的!!! 你拿成品标准去卡刚起步的网络 那当然全挂 这才哪到哪 起飞还早呢 别这么悲观

一开始觉得你太毒舌 后来我把套牢的那几个项目翻出来看 全是画饼 没一个真跑得动的 行 我服了 你说得对

那你测的时候有没有区分 是真没产品 还是产品在后端你看不到。我自己也分不清这两种 想听听你怎么判断的

那你那个能用的三分之一 名单发出来呗 别光说 让我们也撸毛去看看

came in ready to defend the count tbh, i like the energy of a network growing fast. but reading orions invisible-work point and then your reply i think youre basically right and i was counting wrong. the live ones are what matter

wait which third actually WORKED tho?? drop the names im trying to not waste my weekend 🔥

kinda disagree, you tried 30 in a week which means you spent like an afternoon per subnet at most. some of these need real setup before they do anything useful. quick poke and write it off feels like the actual problem here not the subnets

curious what your bar for usable was. like does a working testnet endpoint count or does it have to be the full mainnet product. those are pretty different cutoffs

i tried to use one and it tried to use me back. truly the future

i push back on the day one bar though. nobody ships a working decentralized product on day one, thats not how any of this works. early dashboards are scaffolding not the con you think they are

the rest was a dashboard a roadmap and a promise is going on a tshirt sorry i dont make the rules

genuinely want to be wrong is the most honest line ive read on here all week and also a vibe lol

我承认看完有点想笑 你这一周跑三十个subnet的精神我是佩服的 大部分人连dashboard都懒得点开就开始吹了 你至少是真去摸了一遍 这年头能用就能用 不能用就是个promise 你总结得太到位了 笑死

whats the fastest tell you found for dead vs alive without spending an hour each

a week for 30 isnt enough time to say any of them dont work tbh. youre testing your patience not the subnets

serious one, did any of the dead two thirds at least have public code you could read or was it all closed roadmaps

三十个里能用十个已经谢天谢地了哈哈 我这边能跑通的一只手数得过来 剩下的全靠想象力补全

out of the third that worked, how many would you actually keep using vs tried once and never again. cause those are also two very different numbers

did you control for the ones where theres no user facing surface on purpose

started this thread thinking you were too harsh. tried six myself. yeah ok youre right. four of them do nothing

i get the frustration but a third usable is honestly higher than most early tech ecosystems hit. compare it to the average yc batch or the app store. the signal isnt the dead two thirds, its that the live third exists at all and the bar is climbing. youre reading the glass empty.

a dashboard a roadmap and a promise is the most BITTENSOR sentence ever written lmaooo

本来想反驳 试了试 闭嘴了 真没几个能用

ok ive been chewing on this thread for a few days and im moving toward your side actually. went back and tried to use a few myself with the same bar and yeah, a lot of them you cant. the ones where the product is invisible validator work, fine, but a bunch are just genuinely not shippable yet and dress it up. changed my mind.

想问下你这个三分之一能用的标准是啥 是要有api能调 还是有前端能点。因为有些subnet的产品根本不面向普通用户 你这测法可能漏了一批

you ran 30 subnets in a week. youre the real product here

honestly came in disagreeing 😤 but yeah after trying a few myself you got a point 😅 the working ones are rarer than the timeline makes it look 📉

whats your usable threshold in concrete terms. p50 response under some latency, a real throughput number, or just does the endpoint return 200. those give wildly different counts and i bet half your dead pile flips depending on which

yeah this is right and ive felt it for a while just didnt have the words. the working third carries the whole narrative and everyone cites the full count like its all live. thanks for actually checking

you went through 30 subnets in a week and lived to post about it. medal incoming

我一开始是不服的 觉得你太极端 后来看了orion说的那个 验证端的活你根本看不到 我才意识到我跟你一样数错了 死掉的那批其实没那么多 改口了

finally someone says it. the subnet count is a vanity metric and you know it the second you try to actually use three of them in a row

i tried to use the thing each one claims to do should be the new tagline for this whole site lol